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You were
in London, you dropped out of the college so what did you do?
Well at that point I was just playing in various bands. I used to play
in bars, on my own and I was very confused. I kind of put together a
guitar duo that was like John McLaughlin and all of that and I used to
play in festivals, little festivals and bars and pubs, and I would
join one band and then another band... I was very confused because my
biggest problem at that time is that I used to turn up to bands and
they used to think 'What are you? You're not really a rock guitar
player, you're not really a classical player, you're not a jazz
player, so what the fuck are you?' It was a very strange, confusing
time and I was still kind of making things work, making some money but
not enough and I was very, very confused and disillusioned with
myself. And in this disillusionment the first thing I did was I got
married when I was twenty four and my wife got pregnant and that was
probably the best thing that ever happened to me because at that point
I thought I've got to sort this out now. I'm twenty four years old and
I should be a superstar by now and I'm not. So at that point I started
going round to recording studios a lot more and people used to invite
me. And I used to do it for free - if you want guitar I'm your man. So
free sessions, no artists in particular but to cut a long story short
that kind of escalated and I got a name for myself in London as being
a studio guy,
Was that
also because you had this financial responsibility because of your
family?
Yes I thought I have to make money now. No more bullshit. I'm not
going to be a classical guitarist because I'm not good enough. I knew
that. And I'm not going to be like John McLaughlin because I don't do
that. In fact I realised I was not really good enough to do anything.
I wanted to be Hendrix but I don't really have that together. I didn't
really have a style that I was good enough at. I was just interested
in so many styles of music from bossa nova to a bit of jazz and a bit
of Weather Report stuff and at that point I just sort of thought maybe
I should have just concentrated on one kind of thing. So I became
known with small time record producers just to go in an do their
demos. It was 'Let's get that guy because at least he can play what we
ask him to play and he's not going to complain'. Which of course I
could because I had the technical ability to do what was thrown at me,
and I could put electric guitar sounds together and I could play
anything that they asked me to play. And for a few years this just
happened more and more. I joined a few bands - at the same time I was
playing in a couple of live bands. One of them was World Party which
had some success and another one was called King Swamp who got signed
so I got to go on a tour occasionally and pretend to be a rock star
and make OK money, but my real thing around that time was being in the
studio. I worked with various artists and slowly I remember going from
the bottom of the second division to the top of the second division,
like the b-list players, and I was getting some artists that were
making records and had five album deals.
One of them was Julia Fordham, World Party was another and that kind
of turned into producers becoming my real clients and not artists.
Because a producer is the guy that hires you. When an artist signs to
a new label they get a new producer and the producer gets to make the
record he wants to make, and the producer has a list of three or four
guitarists, three or four drummers, three or four bass players and I
was number three or four on their list. But they're going to call
number one or number two and so I realised that the only way to be a
session player is to be number one on their list. The session player
world is a kind of fantasy for a lot of people. You have to be the
best or you've got one chance in four of working. So it's not until
you get through that door and work for that good producer and you get
the second call where he calls you again and the third and the fourth
call that you are becoming a proper session player and I was becoming
a proper session player and making quite good money for the first time
and supporting a family. The crescendo happened when I was working
with Julia Fordham. It was the first time I met a producer called Hugh
Padgham who was Phil Collins' producer and David Bowie and The Police
and I thought 'Wow, this is my first real producer, I've got to
impress this guy.' And he was impressed with me and I remember saying
to him 'Give me the Phil Collins album and I won't let you down.' And
he laughed and said 'Darryl Stuermer is doing Phil Collins, you're not
going to get that, Dream on!' But I persevered. I was very, very
ambitious at that time. Aggressively so, and I remember saying to him
'Look, I want that gig, you give me that gig, I need to have that
gig'. So I called up Phil Collins' studio two or three times and said,
'Look, I want to play on your record.' Just because he was Phil
Collins. To cut a long story short, they finally said 'Who is this
guy? OK, let’s bring this guy in and just see what happens.' And that
was a life changing moment.
So there
you were with all kinds of top names, playing in the studio but what
made the Sting connection?
What happened is that just after I did that Phil Collins album it was
very, very successful and it's so strange because my whole life
completely changed after that because suddenly everyone knew who I
was. Hugh Padgham was Phil Collins' producer and he was also Sting's
producer. It's as simple as that. Sting was looking for a guitar
player and he asked Hugh, 'Do you know any guitar players?' And he
said, 'Yes, I know Dominic Miller'. So I remember Hugh saying 'Do you
want to go to New York and try out with Sting?' And I thought, Sting?
Well I like The Police, kind of, but I'm not really a big fan. And I
thought, no I don't mind that. Sure. I was a little bit big-headed
because at that time - I'll just reverse a little bit - I remember
Chrissie Hynde out of the Pretenders calling me up in the studio while
I was working with someone, 'It's Chrissie on the phone', the producer
said. And I go 'Chrissie who?' I say hello down the phone, and she
says 'It's Chrissie, Chrissie Hynde'.
'THE Chrissie Hynde?'
'Yes, the Chrissie Hynde'.
'Well..., can I help you?
'Yes, I want you to be in The Pretenders'.
And I go, 'Well, you've never met me'.
She said, 'That's OK, my friend has seen you play in a club in LA and
do you want to be in the band, yes or no?'
And I'm going 'Well don't you think we should meet?'
She says, 'I don't mind. Do you want to meet? I don't mind, but you're
in The Pretenders if you want to be.'
That's kind of what was going on in my life at that time. Very
surreal. So went round to her house and she gave me the job but I
didn't play for her. It was all about the attitude. It wasn't really
about playing, she knew I could play. It was around that time that I
didn't really feel like I had to prove myself any more. The amazing
thing about the Catch-22 concept of getting in a situation where
you've done something that people recognise means you don't have to
prove it anymore. What a great feeling. A lot of guitar players in my
position were going from studio to studio trying to show them how
great they could be when really all you have to do is play simple.
It's so easy to say that but it's so difficult to do. Just play
simple.
So really I was thrown into this situation of going to New York. I
really didn't care either way whether I got a job with Sting or not
but I flew to New York and went into a rehearsal studio in mid town
and there's Sting, that guy, Sting, cool, and I plugged in my guitar
and we jam for a couple of hours. I feel quite comfortable with it. I
didn't know any of his songs but I think now in retrospect he found
that quite intriguing, quite interesting that I hadn't prepared for
it. I was just acting on my instincts. But I remember one point where
he played this song Fragile to me and I though, I recognise that.
That's cool, I like that. That's sort of Brazilian stuff. I remember
saying to him 'Did you write that song?' and then all his crew fell
about laughing, like 'Oh, my god, how dare I say did you write that
song'. So when he said, 'Do you want to play it?' And of course there
was no problem for me to play that song because I'd been playing songs
like that all my life since I was eleven years old, that style of
music. So I remember jamming with that song and that was perhaps where
he realised that maybe I was OK. He threw a few difficult situations
at me, like things in 7/4 or 5/4 and of course being a Weather Report
and Mahavishnu Orchestra fan that was no problem to me. You know,
bring it on, I don't have any problem with that if it's a test.
I remember we just jammed some more on some Police songs which I kind
of vaguely recognised and I put my own style into it and then at the
end of two hours or thereabouts he said 'I want to talk to you,' and I
thought he's just going to say, 'Look, thank you very much but no
thank you.' And he said, 'I want you to be in this band... I want you
to be in my band. Do you want to do an album and a tour?' And I looked
him in the eyes and thought first of all I thought 'Are you serious?,
because I didn't think it had been all that successful and that was
the day that changed my life completely. This is fifteen years ago and
I'm still working with the guy and not only with him but I'm working
in whatever situation I want to work in now. And playing with Phil
Collins and Sting and the producer Hugh Padgham - those people have
changed my life. I can do what I want now and have the freedom to
express myself in anyway that I like to and work with incredible
musicians all over the world. And not only that, but to write with
different people I've developed as a songwriter and I wrote a song
with Sting. I couldn't believe it. I remember him calling me up saying
'There's this little riff that you've come up with'. I was just
sitting by the fire jamming and he said I want to turn that into a
song, do you mind if I turn that into a song? I went, 'No'. He said
'Do you want to know it's about?' And I went, 'I don't care, go for
it, I'd love to collaborate with you on a song'. That song was 'Shape
Of My Heart'.
Maybe we
should end the programme with this song Dominic, it's a good way to
end the programme. It's been great to have you. Thanks very much for
coming by.
It's been great to be here. Thank you to you and all your listeners, I
hope to meet you all some time.
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