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The
following article appeared in the October 1999 issue of Virtual Guitar
magazine. The authors were James Santiago and Cosette Trombino.
All This
Time...
You moved around a lot as a child. When did you start playing guitar?
I was born in Argentina and I moved to Wisconsin when I was eleven. I
actually started playing guitar a little bit before then. I moved to
America for a couple of years, then I moved to England when I was
thirteen or something. That's when I started really getting into
guitar, and it was mainly listening to Hendrix and stuff like that.
But my sister all the while that I was into Hendrix was teaching me,
like, bossa nova tunes. And from South America, I listened to that
shit anyway. [Laughs] I mean, it was normal for me to play in that
kind of mode, that rhythm, that style – it always came naturally to
me. But my main kind of passion was more like Hendrix.
When did
you start playing with bands?
It was quite late on, actually. I did classical guitar for a long
time. I went to music college and all that. I went through all the
grading system in England: grade five, grade eight and all that sort
of thing. It's quite intense. And after that I did a lot of jazz, sort
of festival-y type fringe off the back of, you know, John McLaughlin
and Paco de Lucia and Al Di Meola. I used to love that stuff – the
power acoustic. I had a little duo like that, and we were quite
successful around Europe in the arts circuit (small theatres and
things like that). I did that for a long time. It’s not until I was
about 26 that I saw that it wasn't economical to carry on doing that
and I joined my first real band. I'd been in bands, sort of, up until
then, but nothing serious. I joined World Party with Karl Wallinger.
That's when I stopped being the boss, really. I mean, I just delegated
myself to working for other bands because I thought it was easier.
It’s through doing that that I've had the opportunity to do what my
real passion is, which is my own music. I have a small audience but a
very good audience. My first album, 'First Touch', probably sold 30,000
records worldwide, which is for an indie record quite good, I think.
And hopefully the next one will do better.
Was it a
conscious decision to make your first solo record primarily on the
nylon-string guitar?
No, not at all. A lot of people wanted me to do an album which was
showcasing my electric and all that. I think to do an instrumental
electric album... There are two things wrong with that. Electric
guitar without rhythm section doesn't really make much sense, I don't
think. Electric guitar with rhythm section sounds like a long intro to
a song. [Laughs] The other problem is that there is already one guy
who does electric instrumental albums, and that's Jeff Beck. I just
sort of thought, "I can't compete with this, and I don't want to
compete with it." Acoustic, nylon-string guitar has always been my
voice, anyway. So I was just trying to be honest with myself and put
something down where I had total solidarity in its approach. I am the
A&R man; I am the label. Some labels wanted to pick me up and they
wanted me to get all my friends – you know, Phil Collins, Sting, all
these people I could have got – in the studio. Chrissie Hynde would
have done something. I could have got a star-studded cast, but I just
thought, "Fuck that. I'm just going to do this: an intimate,
meditative series of short stories, which is my message." It's not
very important but at least it's honest, and that's all I wanted to
do. It worked for me. It didn't shake the world or anything. The few
letters that I've had…people are really into it. That's what has made
it worthwhile. A lot of people I know use it just to chill out. That's
my style more than the electric thing is.
When did
you start defining your electric style?
The electric, I just sort of fell into it, because I was into so many
styles and influences that... I mean, for a long time that worked
against me. It’s not until I met Sting that it really worked in my
favor, because what Sting's music is all about is diversity. I'm not
really an expert in any one field. I had a lot of trouble finding work
in the '80s and when I started playing in bands, because no-one was
sure what I was. Like, "He's a bit of this, he's a bit of that" – and
I wasn't even sure who I was. When I started working with Sting ten
years ago, I really had a chance to develop a style on the electric –
which is very much influenced, I have to say in all honesty, by Andy
Summers' playing. I mean, I was never a huge fan of The Police, but
the clever thing that he did with The Police was that he managed to be
a guitar hero without playing widdly-widdly! [Laughs] And I thought,
"Yeah, that's clever!" because in the ‘70s and early ‘80s it was kind
of mandatory that you had to have guitar solos. I've never really been
into that whole concept of guitar solos and the "guitar hero" thing.
I'm really an accompanist when it comes to playing electric. When I
play electric guitar, I like to color the songs.
When you
go on the road with Sting and play The Police material, are you trying
to be faithful to the original recordings?
Absolutely. That's a good point. By playing them pretty much as they
are on the record, it's like I'm saying to the listener – to the
Police fan – that I dig what Andy Summers did. My philosophy with
playing songs that I didn't record myself is: just do it the way they
did it. That worked. If it sounds good, why change it? I might just
try a few little ideas within that structure but... I mean, what am I
going to do with 'Roxanne'? It's funny, when we rehearse – we rehearse
for a long time, which is good – sometimes we rehearse Beatles songs.
We'll take it note for note, just so that we can experience what it
felt like to play it.
I remember
seeing you do "Penny Lane" for a while.
Yeah, and when we rehearse them we do them very strictly. We don't jam
or put our personality on it. It's a good discipline. My discipline
with playing Police songs is to try and stick to the original. As I
said, it's like my tribute to Andy Summers, who I think is a very
important guitarist and a very important influence to me.
Have you
had a chance to play with Andy?
Yeah. He came up a couple of times onstage. But it's very difficult.
It's not fair on him, because we have our shit together and everything
is all set up and he has to come on with his guitar... Our show is
quite produced and so it has never really worked out ideally. But I
would love to spend some time – just him and me – just hanging out and
talking. I mean, I've spoken to him a few times at gigs or at parties
or at record company 'dos. I would relish the opportunity to sit down
and exchange ideas with him. I would certainly like to sit down with
him and just chat. I'm into all guitar players. They're my breed, you
know?
Do you
bring a lot of other music with you when you're on the road?
No, not really. When I'm on the road it's a different thing. It's like
you're in space, in a way – it's pretty strange. Sometimes I listen to
classical music. I like tranquillity, really, because we work every
day, we do soundcheck, we do a gig... Peace and quiet – it's really
important.
Who are
your top five guitar players, then?
I don't have any difficulty saying who they are. And they're not
necessarily in any order, but we'll say: Jimi Hendrix. Jeff Beck is a
really a strong influence because he's just... Jeff Beck. [Laughs] I
can't fault him at all. I love his tone, I love his approach, and he's
just such a consummate guitarist. I love Jimmy Page, because I think
he single-handedly invented the modern rock riff. I also really,
really like Eddie Van Halen, because I think he did something for the
American guitar. The genius of him is that so many people have tried
to emulate what he did over the years and just completely got it
wrong. He really, really contributed something to the guitar. A lot of
people think he's just a shredder, but he's not. He's more than that.
He's done some very serious stuff. John McLaughlin – not when he does
all the fast stuff, but when he plays slowly as an acoustic guitarist.
I think he's just so great at phrasing, and he's such a great writer.
His sense of harmony is just stunning.
Did you
listen to a lot of the Mahavishnu Orchestra?
It's more his acoustic period, post-Mahavishnu, that I picked up on
John.
You did
get to work with him on the Jimi Hendrix tribute album 'In From The
Storm', right?
Yeah, that was fun. In fact, I've met all of my top five except
Hendrix. I've worked with John McLaughlin once. That was an
experience. In fact, that song was nominated for a Grammy. It's so
weird. Sting had invited him down. Eddie Kramer, who was Jimi's
producer, was putting a record together and John wanted to work with
Sting and Vinnie [Colaiuta] to do 'Wind Cries Mary' as a trio. They
did it in Sting's studio. I remember Sting calling me up saying, "I've
got John McLaughlin here and we're trying to do 'Wind Cries Mary' but
he can't play the rhythm part like you can." Sting doesn't care, you
know. Sting said, "Can you come down and play the rhythm and he'll do
all the lead stuff?" And I went, [pauses] "YEAH." It's a 60-mile
journey and I was there in ten minutes! And so there I was working in
the studio with John and it really worked well. I was playing the sort
of loose, Hendrix style of rhythm. He was doing it too staccato. It
just wasn't what Sting wanted, and he was singing the song, so... I
was just like a guest on that track, and it was great. We spent a
couple of days together and it was a great experience.
How do you
feel when you meet guys like that?
It's fabulous. I get very nervous, obviously. These people have
offered so much to the industry that I'm in. Really, I feel obligated
to do the same. There are some people who aspire to what I do and I
like to help them as much as I can.
The first
album you did with Sting, 'The Soul Cages', seemed to have many guitar
layers. Was it difficult to record, since that was your first time
working with him?
No, no, that was actually my best experience with him because he
didn't know me. I had total carte blanche on that record. I got a
chance to express and develop and learn about myself as a player
through that platform. It was a great opportunity, and obviously, when
you do a record like that… I mean, it just gave me a lot of confidence
to carry on that way.
But really, it all started just a bit before I worked with Sting. Phil
Collins was the first real chance I had to find who I was as a guitar
player. It was almost overnight that I decided that the best way to
approach sessions was to break it down to zero. I thought, "What is
the simplest thing I could play?" And that's the thing that worked.
That's what ended up on the record. Phil asked me back, and we did six
days on that album… 'But Seriously', which turned out to be very
successful, and it gave me a lot of confidence. I just came up with an
idea of playing simple instead of trying to prove yourself all the
time. A lot of session players who want to get into the session world
try too hard to prove themselves, where all the artist and the
producer wants is for you to play what is required. And very often
that's not very much.
Restraint is the name of the game for me. I mean, there are moments in
sessions that I play where I think, "Maybe this is the time to do
something flash." I think it's very important not to underestimate the
listener – the non-musician. I'm a strong believer that non-musicians
listen to music in the same emotional way that musicians do – no
better or no worse. You have to respect that. In a way, they listen to
it in a better way. They respond more emotionally to music than
musicians do. It's our job to create the music. You must never
underestimate people who listen to music, because they feel it.
They're the ones who buy the records. You've got to put yourself into
that perspective – into the mind of a music lover. That's how I've
discovered this way of playing in a simpler fashion.
Did it
take you a long time to finish 'Soul Cages' because it was so
guitar-heavy?
As I say, I had a lot of freedom on that record. Probably more freedom
than I've had on any record with Sting, because he didn't really know
me as player – and nor did I. It was a discovery process, but it
didn't really take that long. We rehearsed for three weeks in New York
just for the basic ideas of the record. He didn't have any lyrics
then; we just had a series of jams and sketches. By the time we got to
the studio, we had kind of a rough idea of what the bones of the tunes
were, and I had some parts together that were bona fide, like 'The
Wild, Wild Sea' and 'When The Angels Fall'. 'Soul Cages' came about in the
studio. Once you're in the studio, it's a creative process. You don't
have to worry about everything being one guitar or two guitars or five
guitars. It's just an opportunity to put something down sonically. I
don't really care too much about layering or not layering. I did do a
lot of tracking on that album. A lot of it is using the volume pedal
and things like that, and de-tuning the guitar slightly, and vari-speeding
the tape machine. Just experimenting with Hugh [Padgham], who's a
great engineer. He gave me a chance to work on different ideas with
the guitar. Different types of guitars, different strings, you know.
It was really fun, and it didn't take that long. A lot of the stuff on
that album is first take, actually. The Wild, Wild Sea and When The
Angels Fall we did live with Manu [Katché] and Sting. Then, it was
just a bit of layering on the top.
Your song
'Do You Want Me' on 'First Touch' sounds very reminiscent of the intro
to 'Mad About You' from 'Soul Cages'.
Yeah, that's right. That was a riff I came up with for 'Mad About
You'. A lot of people say it sounds like Sting, just without the
vocals. The thing is that I've been playing with Sting for ten years,
and I wouldn't mind saying that I am influenced by working with him –
it’s true. When you work with someone, you influence each other. And I
wouldn't mind saying that he might be influenced by some of the stuff
I bring to the table. I mean, I'm not being cocky or anything, that's
just how it works. That's why he hires certain [people] like Kenny
Kirkland. He's influenced by Kenny Kirkland’s musicianship as he is by
Manu Katché and Vinnie [Colaiuta]. They bring something to the table.
It would
be hard to listen to 'Mad About You' without the intro guitar part
now, though.
Yeah, it wouldn't be the same, but he still had the concept for the
song. The actual concept was the string part. Then I just came up with
the riff, then we ended up starting with the riff.
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